Starting issue - maybe!

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jrh
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by jrh » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:28 am

I repeat one 'experience' for new readers.
Car 'cut-out'' whilst driving along motorway ,then start and drive normally again. Then again going up Kirkstone Pass !
Cause was one of the three flat spring 'blades ' inside the rotor arm had fallen off, been mashed up by the 6 segment timing 'washer' and the bits stuck to the Hall Effect magnets .
So always worth a check of that rotor arm when taking the dissy cap off. It only fits one way, so you cannot put it back incorrectly.

Sunfly
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by Sunfly » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:47 am

There are two.
One close to the crankshaft and one on the top left of the engine near the cambelt cover. That's the rogue connector. However, the problems you describe are classic dizzy....!
Think of it this way. No top connection - no start. Faulty connection whilst running - it will continue to run without any apparent fault on the No 1 cylinder TDC sensor within the dizzy. However it needs the more frequent pulses of the CPS when starting so that it knows the instant the engine fires. If I were you I'd clean the connector but if the rough running persists, expect a dizzy failure sometime soon. Good luck.

Sunfly
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by Sunfly » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:52 am

Sunfly wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:47 am
There are two.
One close to the crankshaft and one on the top left of the engine near the cambelt cover. That's the rogue connector. However, the problems you describe are classic dizzy....!
Think of it this way. No top connection - no start. Faulty connection whilst running - it will continue to run without any apparent fault on the No 1 cylinder TDC sensor within the dizzy. However it needs the more frequent pulses of the CPS when starting so that it knows the instant the engine fires. If I were you I'd clean the connector but if the rough running persists, expect a dizzy failure sometime soon. Good luck.
Just spotted John's post jrh and again suspect that pesky distributor.

jheath17
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by jheath17 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:47 am

Thanks for that, I have had another non start, this time on Aldi car park, it started eventually, I wiggled the connector under the bonnet, I don't know if that had any effect.
Two things I have notice regarding the rev counter, when there is a no start situation the rev counter needle does not move when i am cranking it over.
When I have the misfire /hesitation problem the rev counter sticks at about three to four thousand rev. I take my foot of the accelerator and wait for the rev counter reading to drop to idle speed then it will drive ok for while.
The fault is not evident when the engine is cold, it seems to wait till its on closed loop before it plays up.
Thank for your help I have been pricing up distributors.

Regards
John

jrh
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by jrh » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:00 am

Misfiring is something to avoid at all costs.
If the HT isn't being discharged across the spark plug gap it has to go somewhere else.
That can be into the primary circuits, with all those vulnerable transistors !

david_toft
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by david_toft » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:15 pm

Misfiring can also destroy the catalyst. The unburnt fuel goes down the exhaust pipe and the cat does its stuff. In burning it off it gets extremely hot and eventually melts into blobs which can then block the rest of the exhaust system, in my experience with a Rover 214. In my mates experience it set fire to the car, also a Rover 214

Sunfly
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by Sunfly » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:38 pm

jheath17 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:47 am
Thanks for that, I have had another non start, this time on Aldi car park, it started eventually, I wiggled the connector under the bonnet, I don't know if that had any effect.
Two things I have notice regarding the rev counter, when there is a no start situation the rev counter needle does not move when i am cranking it over.
When I have the misfire /hesitation problem the rev counter sticks at about three to four thousand rev. I take my foot of the accelerator and wait for the rev counter reading to drop to idle speed then it will drive ok for while.
The fault is not evident when the engine is cold, it seems to wait till its on closed loop before it plays up.
Thank for your help I have been pricing up distributors.

Regards
John

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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by Sunfly » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:39 pm

Sunfly wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:38 pm
jheath17 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:47 am
Thanks for that, I have had another non start, this time on Aldi car park, it started eventually, I wiggled the connector under the bonnet, I don't know if that had any effect.
Two things I have notice regarding the rev counter, when there is a no start situation the rev counter needle does not move when i am cranking it over.
When I have the misfire /hesitation problem the rev counter sticks at about three to four thousand rev. I take my foot of the accelerator and wait for the rev counter reading to drop to idle speed then it will drive ok for while.
The fault is not evident when the engine is cold, it seems to wait till its on closed loop before it plays up.
Thank for your help I have been pricing up distributors.

Regards
John
Hi John
As per my previous post, for my money its still the dizzy. Firstly, the rev counter gets its pulse from... you've guessed it... the dizzy. Occasional no starts and misfiring is also a symptom of the dizzy. I'm also sceptical about a poor connection in the CPS plug suddenly coming good and allowing a start. The CPS is going to either allow the car to start or not dependent upon whether you have a connection or not as I found out just recently. I think its possible but a bit tenuous that the plug is that intermittent a connection when what you are experiencing is commonplace with a failing dizzy.
There are two further plugs on the dizzy. They will definitely be worth a squirt with contact cleaner and a cotton bud.
Are you a 16 or 24v
I believe in principle you can check the codes for the CPS fault but when I pulled the codes on my 24v no CPS code was listed, even though the wire was cut through by the crankshaft pulley. In my case it had to be the CPS despite no code as all other avenues had been exhausted but with you my moneys on....

jheath17
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by jheath17 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:34 pm

Thanks again, I have a contact cleaner spray so I will give that a go, Yes distributor is the likely problem, but what to buy ? a second hand one for £50 or a proper Mazda one for £200, I am thinking the later, the government is about to give me £200 winter fuel allowance, I an sure they wont mind me spending on a distributor. If anyone can recommend a supplier I would appreciate their advice.

I take your point about fault codes on CPS faults, how is the PCM know the difference between one on a vehicle with just the ignition switched on and one that's cranking with a faulty CPS.

One of my most treasured books is a Service training book dated 11/93 which was issued to Ford technicians at the vehicles launch, it tells my how they work but not how to fix them.

jrh
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Re: Starting issue - maybe!

Post by jrh » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:14 am

As long as the £50 works I am not sure you will be buying anymore reliability by going new Mazda.
In fact , even if you buy new , you still need another one as a spare , always !

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