Need some serious help please

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Sunfly
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Need some serious help please

Post by Sunfly » Sat May 23, 2020 4:49 pm

I've got a non starter, I'm afraid.

So... Flying Machine is an August 97 reg, 2.5ltr, 24v so about as late as it gets.

Here's the history.

I last drove it 22 miles to work about 6 weeks ago. It was running perfectly in fact brilliantly when I parked it. Its not missed a beat in 3 years. Next time I went to start it, it wouldn't start. It has not fired once since. So I've done a few basic checks and this is what I know so far.

Oil and water levels normal.
Footwell and engine fuse box fuses checked OK.
Engine bay looks normal, i.e. vac hoses and connectors.
All the alarm lights check normally when going through the check sequence EXCEPT the stop engine (stop Fuel) warning light (the engine with the cross through it) which stays on. I have not seen it go out since the problem began.
The key code warning shows briefly then extinguishes on the test sequence, (though it blinks dimly when cranking). I have tried a spare key but no different.
The car has a good battery and cranks well and normally.
I have removed, tested, swapped and gone back to the original fuel cut off switch in the boot. both switches in perfect order.
The ignition control relay clicks when the key is turned on as does the fuel pump relay. Both have been changed and the fuel relay worked fine with 12v applied on the bench.
The Crank pos sensor CPS plug has been cleaned and terminals slightly twisted.
Codes downloaded were 10,11, 13, 15, 17. so the IAT, and HEGO x 2 (low voltage output and unaltering output on the Hego). I cleared the codes and there is now nothing showing. Still no start.
Spark plug out, no spark at all. All leads dead according to my clip-on timing light.
Changed distributor for unused supposedly new spare. Dead as a dodo. Put the old one back.
Checked the camshaft is turning just in case the timing belt was bust but that's new.
Given the age, I'm assuming the immobiliser is a Temic.

Anomalies that might have a bearing.

I know the main ign relay works as the fuel pump relay works, yet I cant get it to operate on a bench test. Tried two with the same result.
With the ignition on and the fuel relay energised, there is no power to the stop switch, consequently no fuel pump running, (though there is a smell of fuel when cranking). I tried the fuel pump priming link in the diagnostics box but no voltage at the fuel stop switch or sound of the pump running.

That's about it I think. No spark and no fuel and a solid stop engine light :shock: So for my money something is locking the engine out though why I don't know. What might have happened during an uneventfull fortnights rest or during the first attempt to restart it?

I'll be very, VERY, grateful for any help and advice.

Many thanks,

Grasshopper.

jrh
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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by jrh » Sat May 23, 2020 5:24 pm

Running perfectly, then nothing. Classic distributor failure.
Had the same after filling with petrol at the garage. Fortunately had a good spare in the boot.
First step, one way or another, you must see those distributors running on another Probe.

fanman
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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by fanman » Sat May 23, 2020 8:51 pm

Agree with JRH - dizzy - had it happen SOOOO many times - I have just got rid of a box FULL of failed dizzys :shock:

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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by Sunfly » Sat May 23, 2020 10:38 pm

I feel the same about the dizzy and I had loads of trouble a few years back but every time I've had a dizzy failure (8) its given me a bit of a warning in misfiring, stuttering and general rough running. Not this time! I checked the primary and secondary coil resistances and though out of range the coils were intact so I should have gos SOME spark even if a poor one.

Does a dizzy failure give you a solid engine shutdown console light. I dont remember that from last time!

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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by fanman » Sat May 23, 2020 10:53 pm

My last one failed without warning. Like you, I thought everything else could be at fault, but never suspected the dizzy as there had been no hint of a problem. All the coils on all my failed dizzys were in spec too - I believe it is a transistor that fails due to heat (don't quote me as I am no 100% on that).

My first port of call will always be to use a known working dizzy BEFORE any other troubleshooting in future.

Not sure about the engine warn light - cant remember tbh :roll:

cpt black
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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by cpt black » Sun May 24, 2020 6:44 am

Have you got a after market alarm on the car Bob :?: or standard Temic :?:
I have some Late dissy,s i can send up mate for you to try there working
as there my spares for my 3 probes,there OEM ones not aftermarket jobs
Have you a dissy number
Kev

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beegee
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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by beegee » Sun May 24, 2020 11:16 am

I have one of a N reg for sale if you need a quick fix here in Cheltenham.
Last edited by beegee on Mon May 25, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sunfly
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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by Sunfly » Mon May 25, 2020 3:23 pm

fanman wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:53 pm
My last one failed without warning. Like you, I thought everything else could be at fault, but never suspected the dizzy as there had been no hint of a problem. All the coils on all my failed dizzys were in spec too - I believe it is a transistor that fails due to heat (don't quote me as I am no 100% on that).

My first port of call will always be to use a known working dizzy BEFORE any other troubleshooting in future.

Not sure about the engine warn light - cant remember tbh :roll:
Thanks for this info and I've the greatest of respect for John opinion on anything Probe, so I'm going to take your advice and think distributor until proven different. Whats throwing me, however, is the pesky "Stop engine" light. I don't think I've seen that before with a dizzy failure, unless anyone can advise me different. I think I read somewhere in the garage that that indicates, fuel shutoff, dizzy or imobiliser and it might have been Kev (Cpt Black) that mentioned it!

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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by cpt black » Mon May 25, 2020 3:29 pm

Believe the engine light on is the Alternator at fault have you checked the voltage from
the battery when cranking should be appx 14/14.5/does she spin over ok,but no fire up :?:
if so you have starter thats ok,there for lies in the dissy/or aftermarket alarm if you have one
cutting the other 2 circuits out if a Temic they do fail not often,have you tried a OEM dissy replacement
for the oem number(exact) as some dont work,when you replace the dissy link the box out aswell

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Re: Need some serious help please

Post by Sunfly » Mon May 25, 2020 3:53 pm

cpt black wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:44 am
Have you got a after market alarm on the car Bob :?: or standard Temic :?:
I have some Late dissy,s i can send up mate for you to try there working
as there my spares for my 3 probes,there OEM ones not aftermarket jobs
Have you a dissy number
Kev
Kev, you're an absolute star and I shall be so grateful to take you up on your offer.

The car is totally standard, and, so far as I know, has a Temic immobiliser so no aftermarket alterations.

If I can just try a known good one that will be so helpful. As I mentioned, I fitted a "so say... new" dizzy from the UK company that recons them, but it didn't work. I've had my doubts about them since they sent me a "new" dizzy with a location spigot 0.4mm undersize so a rattling good fit in the housing. It worked but you could hear it wasn't central so I sent it back! Consequently, I was never overly confident about the replacement.

Just for your info, I checked the wiring and there is 12v on the black/pink wire of the three pin multiplug, so its got a power supply from the ignition switch at least (if not a connection from the PCM). If I can check it with a known runner and it still doesn't work then at least I've eliminated the power supply and the dizzy itself, so the dizzy data is as follows..

Mitsubishi TOT 57271 KF34 for a 1997 24v.

I'll send you a pm with my details, but if you can just box them up, I'll get DPD to come and collect them so you don't have to pay postage. I'll get them back to you the same way. Alternatively, dependent on where you live, I can get one of our sales engineers to drop by and pick it up in person.

Thanks again and I much appreciate your help. :D

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